Castration by twisting testicles inside sac

[bobbie (imported)]

Dear all,

I think BridgetteFeels asked for what the french speaking world understands with 'Bistournage'.

This castration form results from the torsion of the testicular cords within the scrotum. So this scrotum is not opened !

What is bistournage ?

The scrotum can be regarded as just a sac containing the two testicles hanging on a cord. Simple thinking may lead to a very simple way of castration, especially in those patients with long scrotal necks: Just turn the testicle round its own axle and a torsion of the cord is the result. This torsion obliterates the blood vessels and the testicle dies of hypoxia.

This is/was a castration method in older days. The big advantage was there was no cutting, no wound, so no risk of infection. Disadvantage was the method is not reliable. Why ?

Why is the method not reliable ?

Nature is not stupid. During development human gonads (these gonads develop in ovaries or testicles depending on the chosen sex, XX or XY) are located in the belly. They are conected with a membrane that pulls them down.

Female ovaries will be connected to the this membrane, 'ligamentum rotundum' which holds the ovaries in the neighbourhood of the womb .

Male testicles will locate themselves in the scrotum, pulled downwards by their connected membrane or 'gubernaculum'. (I believe I ones read that at a certain stade this membrane develops muscle tissue to pull the testicles downwards. Failure can lead to cryptorchidism). After the testicular descent it remains as a small but important fibrous connection between the scrotum and the testicle.

This gubernaculum prevents turning of the testicle in its own sac because it is connected to.

However

Active turning and twisting of the testicles can lead to the testicular death and so castration in certain animals. As stated, this method has been described. I have an old french book (1941) in which the method is described along with other approaches: tearing out the testicles with the teeth, torsion until rupture (manual version of the Henderson, I think), elastration, Burdizzo.

The book rejects elastration because of the pain and risk of infection. The book prefers the bistournage (if in good hands because it does not seam to be an easy procedure) and burdizzo method. Open procedures are done in bigger animals.

Human analogue

A similar condition of testicular torsion occur sometimes spontaneously in humans. Especially postpuberal boys and young men can have this problem.

Due to an incomplete or loose gubernaculum the testicle can sometimes turn upon its own. This results in what docs call: acute scrotum: The testicle, not having enough blood and oxygen cries for it: An unusual great pain, without trauma before starts in the groin, irradiates towards the kidney region.

Some boys are afraid to tell this because it usually happens after masturbation (due to contraction of the dartos during this), and actually try to harden this pain. It seems a hot bath can ease the pain. A testicle that is ischaemic for a few hours is most probably lost. It appears that due to immunologic changes it even can deteriorated the fertility of the other (healthy) testicle.

One could find more and even with pictures at google (images). Just look for 'acute scrotum'.

And my attempts:

I often tried to turn my testicles. It does not work. Fortunately ?

However, after twisting the testicle twice, traction on the testicle gives a profound feeling ...

Hoping to have helped some what,

Take care !

Vesal.

Excellent post.

[Dana Lane (imported)]

Dear all,

I think BridgetteFeels asked for what the french speaking world understands with 'Bistournage'.

This castration form results from the torsion of the testicular cords within the scrotum. So this scrotum is not opened !

What is bistournage ?

The scrotum can be regarded as just a sac containing the two testicles hanging on a cord. Simple thinking may lead to a very simple way of castration, especially in those patients with long scrotal necks: Just turn the testicle round its own axle and a torsion of the cord is the result. This torsion obliterates the blood vessels and the testicle dies of hypoxia.

This is/was a castration method in older days. The big advantage was there was no cutting, no wound, so no risk of infection. Disadvantage was the method is not reliable. Why ?

Why is the method not reliable ?

Nature is not stupid. During development human gonads (these gonads develop in ovaries or testicles depending on the chosen sex, XX or XY) are located in the belly. They are conected with a membrane that pulls them down.

Female ovaries will be connected to the this membrane, 'ligamentum rotundum' which holds the ovaries in the neighbourhood of the womb .

Male testicles will locate themselves in the scrotum, pulled downwards by their connected membrane or 'gubernaculum'. (I believe I ones read that at a certain stade this membrane develops muscle tissue to pull the testicles downwards. Failure can lead to cryptorchidism). After the testicular descent it remains as a small but important fibrous connection between the scrotum and the testicle.

This gubernaculum prevents turning of the testicle in its own sac because it is connected to.

However

Active turning and twisting of the testicles can lead to the testicular death and so castration in certain animals. As stated, this method has been described. I have an old french book (1941) in which the method is described along with other approaches: tearing out the testicles with the teeth, torsion until rupture (manual version of the Henderson, I think), elastration, Burdizzo.

The book rejects elastration because of the pain and risk of infection. The book prefers the bistournage (if in good hands because it does not seam to be an easy procedure) and burdizzo method. Open procedures are done in bigger animals.

Human analogue

A similar condition of testicular torsion occur sometimes spontaneously in humans. Especially postpuberal boys and young men can have this problem.

Due to an incomplete or loose gubernaculum the testicle can sometimes turn upon its own. This results in what docs call: acute scrotum: The testicle, not having enough blood and oxygen cries for it: An unusual great pain, without trauma before starts in the groin, irradiates towards the kidney region.

Some boys are afraid to tell this because it usually happens after masturbation (due to contraction of the dartos during this), and actually try to harden this pain. It seems a hot bath can ease the pain. A testicle that is ischaemic for a few hours is most probably lost. It appears that due to immunologic changes it even can deteriorated the fertility of the other (healthy) testicle.

One could find more and even with pictures at google (images). Just look for 'acute scrotum'.

And my attempts:

I often tried to turn my testicles. It does not work. Fortunately ?

However, after twisting the testicle twice, traction on the testicle gives a profound feeling ...

Hoping to have helped some what,

Take care !

Vesal.

Thank you! Great post!

[billf82 (imported)]

If you go to the Henderson web site you do not see any reference of using the tool on young animals on the sack. Where did you get your information?

What is your plan if I am so bold to ask if the twisting fails? Or if it does not tare where you plan it to? The tare is above the twisting? Try to twist your sack around 3 times. Can you do it? Do you really think you can twist it 20 times? The sack is jut too thick and short to twist. It may not just be enough to seal the end. If it reopens what do you do then. Have cords blood vessels, artery's and sac bleeding. Fast trip to the ER if lucky. The cords are long and thin. They can twist and break.

If the tool is used just on the cords like it is to be used you have the follow problems. Then there is the slit you had to make to get the ball out of the sack. How do you plan to control the bleeding? There is the infection factor to deal with. Gosh did I leave any other possible problems with this type of castration. OH yea the pain factor! That gotta hurt big time.

This castration is good fantasy in story books. But not good in real life.

I'm not sure as to your point. In my couple of posts, all I have done is to report the existence of a real tool used in the castration of livestock and to relay information based on my observation of a Henderson clamp in use and upon comments from some ranchers and a vet. This was quite a few years ago. I can't really say if Henderson use has increased or declined nor whether methodology has changed in the interim.

I can say that in the uses I saw, it worked. There was no visible significant bleeding. While I suspect that such a device would be effective on humans, I'm unaware of any empirical evidence as to safety, pain level, etc. I would certainly not say that livestock experience would provide data for predicting human outcomes. That said, I would get a certain pleasure from applying a Henderson clamp to the SOB that swerved in front of my car earlier today with bare inches to spare.

[OneBallBoi (imported)]

At the age of 16, I had the mumps for a second time.This time it was on the inside of my body. The right testicle swelled to the size of a baseball. The pain level were out of this world that night and for several months afterward. I am confident that the pain that I experienced would be similar to the pain levels if you twisted your cords as you are suggesting.

[Pair1981 (imported)]

I am not one for using tools like the Henderson clamp on myself...

But, it might be fun to use it on someone else...The looks on their faces have to be priceless, and painful....

However, I am not into random torture either. There has to be a reason for use...e.g., on a child molester.

I have 3 girls and they better not get touched.

Anywya, testicular torsion is painful and not a laughing matter.

[saywhat (imported)]

I searched the forums and couldn't find any posts and also didn't think this fit in chemical or surgical castration so I posted here. Feel free to move it if it is in the wrong area.

What are your thoughts about taking the individual testicles and rotating them in say a clockwise (or counter clockwise) direction which should twist the cord and blood vessels into a state that is closed. Would this be the same thing as banding except not destroying the sac as well?

I remember my brother had to go to the doctor once because one of his testicles got twisted and he said it got swollen as big as a grapefruit (may have been exaggerating).

Thoughts?

I have tried this many times. I have not found a way to keep them twisted long enough to cause damage. You would have to have them twisted for over 4 hours at least. 24 hours is the point of no return where surgeons must remove them.

[gordon..j (imported)]

I searched the forums and couldn't find any posts and also didn't think this fit in chemical or surgical castration so I posted here. Feel free to move it if it is in the wrong area.

What are your thoughts about taking the individual testicles and rotating them in say a clockwise (or counter clockwise) direction which should twist the cord and blood vessels into a state that is closed. Would this be the same thing as banding except not destroying the sac as well?

I remember my brother had to go to the doctor once because one of his testicles got twisted and he said it got swollen as big as a grapefruit (may have been exaggerating).

Thoughts?

I saw a TV programme about this and vets use it to keep bleeding to a minimum .But, first the sack has to be cut up the middle then the testicles twisted one by one, therefore, it might be a little tricky twisting the ball inside an uncut sack. However, you are right about the twisting it is a common practice with vets—and it really stops the bleeding.

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

I have tried this many times. I have not found a way to keep them twisted long enough to cause damage. You would have to have them twisted for over 4 hours at least. 24 hours is the point of no return where surgeons must remove them.

From my notes on the academic literature:

"Acute ischemia through torsion or ligation of spermatic cords for as little as 5 hours,

followed by reperfusion, causes irreversible loss of spermatogenesis"(Bergh et al., 2001)

"In rats, a 5h reduction in flow to approximately 70% of the normal value may be sufficient to induce death among spermatogonia and early primary spermatocytes. High-grade ischemia causes necrotic damage to all parts of the testis." (Bergh et al., 2001)

Bergh A, Collin O and Lisbrant E (2001).

Effects of acute graded reduction in

testicular blood flow on testicular

morphology in the adult rat. Biology of

Reproduction, 64: 13

Also, see page 58 of Liautard's "Animal Castration" (https://archive.org/details/animalcastration00liau) for a concise and stepwise description of bistournage (and how to perform it). The manipulations are eminently possible on humans, but the structure of the human groin frustrates the securing of the testicles in the upper portion of the scrotum without enough room to untwist. Perhaps it might be more fruitful to secure them at the extreme bottom of the sac, for it seems unlikely in horses and bulls that the testicles could be shoved up behind the pubic fat pad; in humans, they can be stuffed up there with room to spare (and to untwist).

Having performed such manipulations on myself, sure in the knowledge that it would fail, I managed to keep them twisted until it began to become uncomfortable - about half an hour, well short of the documented danger zone. I was pleasantly surprised, for the pain was perhaps only a quarter as intense as my usual chronic orchialgia pains. Either there's a significant increase in the pain later on, though it seemed to level out at somewhat under a 2 on the ten-step pain scale, or I have had my standards thoroughly wrecked over the last year or two.

[Paolo]

That was about 5.5 years ago, both former posters are gone. I doubt they'll be seeing this.