Page 9 of 20
Re: My life
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:32 pm
by Danya (imported)
Danya (imported) wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:49 am
Hi Mac,
Thanks for the good wishes. I
won't have my laptop computer with me in Montreal and I may not feel up to posting for a time after my return. Most days, I concentrate on my w
butterflyjack (imported) wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:16 am
ork and don't think about surgery. This is good, otherwise the time would just crawl by.
Hugs,
Danya
Hi sweety. It's good to hear from you...A wee bit of man juice has certainly improved your mood/ drive...
If nothing else, you'll never be able to say you are living a mundane, boring life..I really love your drive/ambition...Good going on the tickets to La Belle Province... Maybe you could check out some opportunities in the Montreal ar
ea...
You'd probably fit right in there...The world is your oyster; keep shucking..
smooches dragonfly
Hi Dragonfly,
No, I'm not leading a boring life. Remember, though, the old curse "May you live in interesting times."
I've always had a lot of ambition, although since transitioning my ambitions have changed in some profound ways. I'm still working through that and how it all fits into my life.
I was surprised that, about 8 months after I transitioned, the Strengths Finder personality profile test (widely used in corporations) indicated that "achieving" was still one of my top five strengths. For a few months, I'd like a vacation from achieving. Lounging on a warm, tropical beach would be a wonderful break.
Strategic thinking was another one of my top strengths. I'm using that one as I consider my career path and a possible move. I'm simply reporting two of my results. There are no strengths on this test that are considered better than others. The test is merely a tool used, in part, to help groups see how they might more effectively work together.
I doubt that I would be permitted to move to Canada for a job. I'd have to have a skill in very short supply there. My age might also be a hindera[quote="
[quote="Danya (imported)" wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:03 pm
Danya (imported) wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:21 pm
ime=1295670060]
Danya (imp
[/quote]
orted) wrote:Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:39 pm
"Danya (imported)" time=12954
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Danya (
Danya (imp
[/quote]
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nce. I looked into this possibili
ty about 5 years ago.
Hugs,
Danya
__________________
_______________________________
_ __________________________________________________ ___________
I just did some quick research on a number of metropolitan areas, looking for advertised jobs in my field of expertise as that relates to the regions' populations. I included the Chicago region in the comparison.
I was surprised by what I found. On a per capita basis, the San Francisco metropolitan area has over twice as many openings. Philadelphia and New York are not far behind. I was disappointed to see that Seatt
Danya (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:03 pm
le does not have a good showing in this IT-related fie
active area for other type of IT wor
Portland, OR turned out to be much better th
oston has nearly 3 times as man
able job openings. So does Washington, DC.
M
gs are merely a snapshot of the situation ove
This is not enough information.
all this, I may well remain right here. I ce
I am offered a permanent job wh
w work. Over the next few months, I will do m
making any decision to move.
_________________________________________________
_ __________________________________________________ ______________
I am taking a very long, strategic view of my life and career. This is what I must do, I have little choice if I want to succeed in having a reasonably good standard of living as I save money for retirement. I am simply facing the facts, to the best of my ability, so I can make what are often difficult decisions. Believe me, I'd much rather spend my time playing the piano!
I'll still fit that in.
There are a number of factors I am considering. One is the on-going out-sourcing of many jobs to workers in other countries. The pace of this may be accelerating. My current job is not one that can be easily out-sourced. It's also predicted to be one of the top ten fastest growing job types over the next decade. Out-sourcing has been an ongoing concern for IT jobs for a number of years. Some commentators predict that within a few more years many finance and human resource functions will be out-sourced. I need to find my way through this changing economy.
Then there is the increasing trend of corporations holding onto large profits while not significantly increasing the hiring of permanent employees. It is very possible that, at least for the next several years and possibly much longer, this will be the new business as usual. Companies may even increase their reliance on temporary workers like me for certain types of work. During and immediately after the end of the recession, they adapted to operating in a 'leaner' fashion. The number of contract workers is now higher than ever, as a percentage of the workforce. Companies don't have to pay benefits and they are able to run more flexible businesses. Several career books I've read indicate that, for older workers like me, contract work may be the best option. At least in the line of work I am in. Most contract workers I know would rather have a permanent job. These days, though, there really is no such thing as a permanent job for many of us.
I need to adapt to a work situation that is very different from what I prefer, or take my career in another direction.
This is one reason why I am considering a career change. Not a total change, but one based on my education and experience. Or a change to several simultaneous career jobs that better fit my passions. Just such an approach was recommended at several job clubs in the Twin Cities.
I may be ambitious, but the way I look at things I have no choice. I do not believe the economy is ever going to return to the way it was before the latest recession. From what I read, people are largely unaware that after at least the last several recessions, the economy never fully recovered to where it had been before those events. The changes are more obvious now because of the depth of this recession.
As I somehow work all this out, I want to allow time for enjoying life, too. That includes forming a network of friends and, perhaps, dating.
This may not make much sense.
I should have been in bed an hour ago.
Re: My life
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:12 pm
by Danya (imported)
Now that we look at each other as friends, 'X' and I are getting along extremely well. Typically, I see him no more than once a week. When we get together, I'm trying out things I have been learning about gender differences. I'm pleased that this is helping, significantly, too.
Before we broke up, I called him at least once a day. Now, I call him once or twice a week.
I'm even able to talk about politics with him without getting bent out of shape. Instead of losing my cool, I accept that in this area we are very different and that it does not matter. Especially since our relationship is one of friendship only.
Although I have told some friends that I am basically apolitical, that's not strictly true. I spend little time tracking the latest political news, but I have strong views.
He considers himself a devout Catholic and attends Mass 'religiously.' He usually ducks into church just in time for the Eucharist (communion). Now when he tells me he prays that "the Holy Spirit will descend on you (me)", I just nod my head. I used to think this was a bit presumptuous, considering ... well, considering a number of things. Including the fact that I consider myself leaning toward agnosticism. Culturally, I am definitely a Christian.
NOTE: I do not want to start a political or religious discussion on this thread. I am merely stating who I am, as part of the overall picture.
I am pleased that 'X' continues to do volunteer work for "Equality Illinois." He's volunteering at one of their fund raisers all say Saturday. I'll be able to crash the black tie party at about 10 PM. 'X' and I will then be able to dance with the paying attendees. This will be one of my few opportunities to dress well for a special event.
"Equality Illinois" advocates for LGBT persons and bills itself of one of the top organizations in the US for this work.
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ted)" time=1296271260]
Re: My life
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:15 pm
by butterflyjack (imported)
Hi Danya. If nothing else, you are one prolific writer....Phew...and a real thinker.. How about a new picture icon? I miss your pretty face...
smooches dragonfly
Re: My life
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:25 pm
by Dave (imported)
Glad to see you survived the cold and snow and all that trauma in Chicago...
Re: My life
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:44 am
by Danya (imported)
butterflyjack (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:15 pm
Hi Danya. If nothing else, you are one prolific writer....Phew...and a real thinker.. How about a new picture icon? I miss your pretty face...
Danya (impo
[/quote]
rted) wrote:Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:32 pm
smooches dragonfly
Hi Dragonfly,
In other words, I can talk a lot!
Although 'thinking' is not my preferred way of approaching matters (i.e., by my Myers-Briggs personality type and other tests, I prefer to have my feelings lead the way - I agree with these test results, too), I am able to look at all kinds of things rather analytically. I am glad people like you notice this. Thanks. Analytical thinking is exactly what I need to do in my
Dave (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:25 pm
career as a business analyst/systems analyst.
I may put up an avatar showi
ng part of my face.
Hugs,
Danya
Glad to see you survived the cold and snow and all that trauma in Chicago...
Hi Dave,
It's great to hear from you! The blizzard was bad and one of the worst in the city's history. For a brief time, the folks in the know had downgraded the storm to the 4th worst since records have been kept. Now, it's back in 3rd place.
All of the snow made traffic a headache for a number of days. Some lanes on major streets, and even interstates, remained unplowed for a time.
For at least the next 7 days, high temperatures will be above freezing. This is more typical for this time of year. Sometim
Danya (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:12 pm
e next week, it may even approach 50 F.
Dany
[/quote]
a (imported) wrote:Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:32 pm
[quot
Re: My life
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:27 am
by Danya (imported)
Things are over for 'X' and me. I knew this time would come, but it's still difficult. Realizing I did not want anything more than friendship with him, I have encouraged him to date. He has protested that he wants no more of that until he finishes school.
When I arrived at the downtown gala last night, I searched for 'X.' When I found him, he was speaking with a young (genetic) woman. This did not bother me. What did bother me was that he gave me a curt greeting and resumed his conversation with this woman. She piped up with "Aren't you going to introduce us?" Then he did and immediately returned to ignoring me.
I thought surely he would come to dance with me at some point. He did not and after 40 minutes I left. He was still speaking with "I." This was rude, to say the least, since he had invited me to the event specifically to dance with him.
This morning, he admitted he had behaved poorly last night. I agreed! I told him it seemed he and "I" had something going between them. He said he had spoken with her for several hours and found her interesting. He is going to see where things go.
I understand his need for a more intimate relationship and I wished him well. I will miss having a male companion to share inexpensive dinners and movies. That's the hard part for me. I'm feeling a bit down about this today. I tend to understate certain types of feelings. What I really mean is, I'm feeling very down about this.
Right now, it's not helping that I know he is not the right man for me. I feel awful. I cannot deny that I still harbored some loving feelings for him. I will take more action to connect with new people. Spending time with 'X' was getting in the way of that.
On March 4, it will be one year since I moved to the Chicago area. Since then, I've moved two more times within the metro area. This has not been easy and it has made it more difficult start forming friendships. Despite our difficulties, 'X' helped anchor me. I have known him since mid-May of last year.
Everyone was too busy partying last night for me to network. The only good thing I got out of the event was that I got to dress well and get out.
Re: My life
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:02 pm
by JessicaH (imported)
I have chatted with you online for years, even under a different screen name... so I was a real treat to speak with you on the phone last night. I meant it last night when I said to please call anytime you feel lonely or down but I'd love to hear from you when things are GOOD, too!
It's been wonderful and helpfull to follow your story from the beginning. I know you originally had another screen name but I still don't have a clue what it was....lol.
Love, Stacy
Re: My life
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:59 am
by Danya (imported)
JessicaH (imported) wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:02 pm
I have chatted with you online for years, even under a different screen name... so I was a real treat to speak with you on the phone last night. I meant it last night when I said to please call anytime you feel lonely or down but I'd love to hear from you when things are GOOD, too!
It's been wonderful and helpfull to follow your story from the beginning. I know you originally had another screen name but I still don't have a clue what it was....lol.
Love, Stacy
Hi Stacy,
I was great speaking with you last night. Usually, things are good for me. Right now, I'm just a bit more stressed out than usual.
I enjoyed learning some things about your life and how you are doing.
Career decisions, thoughts of perhaps moving again to a place I might spend the rest of my life, ongoing major expenses for transitioning, switching to a different antidepressant and my continued contract employee status are all contributing to my stress level. Even positive changes produce stress for most people. I predicted some months ago that 2011 might prove to be one of my most difficult years. I think I was right.
I know I will find my way through all of this. It's very helpful to know I can speak with supportive people like you.
Love,
[quot
Re: My life
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:46 pm
by Danya (imported)
He wrote to me that he would, of course, still take my calls as long as he was not in class. I wished him well but let him know I would not contact him again.
I cannot believe I'm once again going through these feelings of loss over this man. At least it's easier this time.
Re: My life
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:21 am
by Uncle Flo (imported)
I think of this sort of thing as lessons that could not be had for any money - although the price paid can be high in other ways. --FLO--
Re: My life
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:37 am
by Danya (imported)
Uncle Flo (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:21 am
I think of this sort of thing as lessons that could not be had for any money - although the price paid can be high in other ways. --FLO--
Thanks, Flo, for your thoughtful observations. It helps to know that someone recognizes that many people go through this type of thing. Over the last few days I have felt like an idiot for not accepting the reality of who this man is far sooner.
I hope I am far wiser for this experience.
Hugs,
Danya
Re: My life
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:44 pm
by Danya (imported)
To move beyond 'X,' for the last time, I have deleted his phone number from my cell phone and removed his email address from my list of contacts. I am also taking steps that have worked before, including visiting places alone that we used to jointly explore.
Tonight, I went to a movie alone for the first time in months. I saw the fairly light-weight "No Strings Attached." I was crying at the end, as I frequently do at movies whatever the genre. This was good for me.
A call from a friend earlier this evening helped a lot, too. We have known each other for several years, going back to the time before I transitioned. I felt very calm after we spoke about many things. This confirmed that I really need to get into action to form a local network of friends. Not that they will ever replace the friends I already have.
Tonight, I received an email from a woman friend who is a trainer at the Minnesota Workforce Center I relied on, a lot, when I was laid off. We became friends. I was always quite open with her about who I am. I needed to be as I wanted feedback then about how to handle job applications as a trans woman.
In her note, she was responding to my request for suggestions on my life direction. Taking into account her knowledge of me and where my passions lie. She offered some very keen insights and ideas, too. She is a sweetheart.
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Re: My life
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:53 pm
by transward (imported)
I am sorry for all the stress in your life. Breakups, even when it is the only thing to do, still are painfull. Take care of yourself.
Regarding your antidepressant, I have a lot of empathy for your situation. But I am having a hard time figuring out your plans. Your scheduled SRS is in about 8 week. In that time you are talking about tapering off one antidepressant, then tapering up to full dose on another, then immediately turning around and tapering back off the second. Since every antidepressant I know of warns of going on or off too quickly, and it usually takes two to three weeks to taper off or on, that's cutting it a bit close and almost guaranttes 8 weeks of emotional upheaval. Since your insurance is going to continue till your SRS, and since you have to taper off for your SRS, it would seem to make more sense to continue the expensive one till you have to go off for SRS, then to go on the new one after the surgery.
I am curious about your link between the estrogen and the depression. I also (like many trans folk) have battled depression my whole life. I have been suicidal at least since age twelve; that I am still hanging around at my age is a testament to the power of positive cowardice. In my case I have found that I get quite depressed shortly before I am due for a new shot, and that my mood improves considerably after a shot. Does the estrogen induce your depression of is it linked to the drop in blood levels just before the shot? (I take 20 mg every two to three weeks.)
Should you ever get up to the NW corner of the country I would love to meet you sometimes.
Transward
Re: My life
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:55 pm
by butterflyjack (imported)
Hi sweety...I like what Transward had to say...and the way you're talking, it's almost as though you're forecasting gloom and doom...If you follow Transward's advice, the surgery may just enhance your mood to the point that, upon restarting with the less miraculous drug , you just may have a full recovery...
Sounds feasible to me... And, it looks like winter's worst is behind us...and you have springtime in Montreal to look forward to in about 2 months...
Big smooches dragonfly
Re: My life
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:09 am
by transward (imported)
Are you also taking progesterone? Serious problems with depression are much more common as side effects of it than of estrogen. This is especially true of those taking synthetic progestins, which are notorious for causing serious depression. The sudden drop in blood estrogen levels at childbirth, and the corresponding rise of progesterone levels is one of the main causes of postpartum depression in genetic women.
Transward
Re: My life
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:53 am
by Danya (imported)
transward (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:53 pm
I am sorry for all the stress in your life. Breakups, even when it is the only thing to do, still are painfull. Take care of yourself.
Hi Transward,
Thanks for writing, for expressing your understanding and for caring.
transward (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:53 pm
Regarding your antidepressant, I have a lot of empathy for your situation. But I am having a hard time figuring out your plans. Your scheduled SRS is in about 8 week. In that time you are talking about tapering off one antidepressant, then tapering up to full dose on another, then immediately turning around and tapering back off the second. Since every antidepressant I know of warns of going on or off too quickly, and it usually takes two to three weeks to taper off or on, that's cutting it a bit close and almost guaranttes 8 weeks of emotional upheaval.
I agree with you and I used the same line of reasoning. What I did not mention is that, once I am off my current antidepressant for two weeks, I will start yet another medicine to help me get through the adjustment period to the new antidepressant. Both my psychiatrist and my HRT physician recommended that I take a prescription amphetamine (e.g., ritilin) to boost my energy level during the transition time. I'm not convinced this is wise, and I will research it further. If I follow my doctors' advice, though, I may not start the new antidepressant at all until after surgery.
Since the end of January, I have been without health insurance. That's when my 18-months of COBRA coverage ran out. I will be covered under my contract agency's policy by next week. Whether or not the new plan covers my antidepressant, I can no longer afford the co-payment. I have to stop taking very expensive medicine unless I have no option.
The lack of affordable health insurance for contract workers is one reason I am considering career options.
transward (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:53 pm
I am curious about your link between the estrogen and the depression. I also (like many trans folk) have battled depression my whole life. I have been suicidal at least since age twelve; that I am still hanging around at my age is a testament to the power of positive cowardice. In my case I have found that I get quite depressed shortly before I am due for a new shot, and that my mood improves considerably after a shot. Does the estrogen induce your depression of is it linked to the drop in blood levels just before the shot? (I take 20 mg every two to three weeks.)
I suspect you are positively a courageous 'coward,' at the very least.
Having dealt with major depression since the age of 4 or so, I know first hand how difficult this makes life. That you have gotten this far is a testament to your courage.
The folks at the University of Minnesota gender clinic warned me of the danger for estrogen to exacerbate depression. They did not consider it to be an absolute contraindication to treatment with estrogen, but urged caution. I have done a literature search of my own which confirms this connection for some people, not all.
As far as the estrogen goes, for weeks I felt extremely low for a several days after an injection. Supplemental testosterone solved that problem. I may feel a little down the day before an injection.
The estradiol content in my weekly 7 cc injection is roughly 280 mg, or an average of 40mg/day. My doctor would like to see my blood plasma estrogen level in the 200 - 400 (whatever units
) range. When I was using the sublingual pills, I was taking 10 mg/day (70 mg/week).
I'm sure this final break-up with 'X' is contributing to my down mood, which really is not so bad now.
I can handle 10 mg/day of estrogen as I change medications. I still think it's too risky to be on 280 mg/week during this time. Anyway, several weeks before surgery I will need to stop all estrogen HRT. This may make things more difficult.
I apologize for my rambling reply.
Just saw your latest question. No, I am not taking prog
butterflyjack (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:55 pm
esterone.
transward (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:53 pm
Should you ever get up to the NW corner of the country I would love to meet
you sometimes.
Transward
I would love to meet you, too, my friend.
Hugs,
Danya
Hi sweety...I like what Transward had to say...and the way you're talking, it's almost as though you're forecasting gloom and doom...
Hi Dragonfly,
butterflyjack (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:55 pm
I've dealt with changing antidepressant medications numerous times over the last 3 1/2 decades. My forecast comes from experience. I'm simply being realistic. If things are dif
ferent this time, no one will be happier than me.
If you follow Transward's advice, the surgery may just enhance your mood to the point that, upon restarting with the less miraculous drug , you just may have a full recovery...
I am hopeful that after surgery, and when my life becomes more stable, I won't need any antidepressant. That would be truly wonderful. In general, my post-transition
butterflyjack (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:55 pm
life has far exceeded my expectations. I never dreamed I could be so happy on a regular basis.
Until things are more stable for me, though, I am just as hopeful that the less ex
pensive antidepressant will be more than adequate.
Sounds feasible to me... And, it looks like winter's worst is behind us...and you have springtime in Montreal to look forward to in about 2 months...
Big smooches dragonfly
The temperature here in Chicagoland reached at least the mid-50s today. I loved it. Things will cool down again but Spring is not far off.
Hugs,
Danya
Re: My life
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:28 pm
by Danya (imported)
This is a very difficult time for me. Overall, and conveniently ignoring some large bumps along the way
, I am pleased with the way I have handled my life in the time since I was laid off.
This is another bump time. I need to keep in mind what my close friend Erica Ann has told me. "You've made it through some difficult times in your life, you can make it through this." She is right and I will make it through my current life complications.
My woman friend at the Minnesota Workforce Center wrote to me Tuesday. She, and a male colleague who was my dislocated worker counselor, continue to have seemingly unlimited faith in my ability to get to where I want and need to be.
[It still saddens me that so many, through no fault of their own of for lack of trying, still struggle to find work. People should be able to earn a living, regardless of their social status, race, gender of educational level.]
Her note reminded me that I have, so far, never failed to achieve what I have gone after in my life. This does not mean that what I have pursued, and gained, was always in my best interest.
I just don't know when to give up.
Some months ago, I reached the point of fully believing what people like this friend were telling me. I think I'm still mostly there, taking into account a quite natural feeling of discouragement. Being discouraged does not mean I do not believe in myself, my worth and the contributions I can make to others.
Years ago, a wise therapist told me that it is possible to be depressed and also at peace. As in simultaneously.
I agree, although this can be challenging.
Although I do not feel quite as on top of things as I prefer, I still find great joy and reassurance in music.
At times like this, it helps if I leave inspirational quotes lying about to read from time to time. These are a few I just found. Many refer to relationships that have ended. Some could easily apply to many of life's disappointments:
Anonymous
Relationships are like glass. Sometimes it's better to leave them broken than try to hurt yourself putting it back together.
Victoria Holt
Never regret. If it's good, it's wonderful. If it's bad, it's experience.
Larry Miller
I broke up with someone, and she said, "You'll never find anyone like me again." And I'm thinking, 'I hope not!'
Margaret Mitchell
I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken, and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken pieces as long as I lived.
Nicole Kidman
I refuse to let what happened to me make me bitter. I still completely believe in love and I'm open to anything that will happen to me.
Usher
Breaking up is a natural evolution when you try to figure out what you want in life. If you're with an individual who isn't moving in the same direction and at the same rate that you are, it ain't going to work.
Alexander Graham Bell
When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.
Nicole Kidman
I'm not sure what the future holds but I do know that I'm going to be positive and not wake up feeling desperate. As my dad said "Nic, it is what it is, it's not what it should have been, not what it could have been, it is what it is."
Re: My life
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm
by transward (imported)
...
Danya (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:53 am
As far as the estrogen goes, for weeks I felt extremely low for a several days after an injection. Supplemental testosterone solved that problem. I may feel a little down the day before an injection.
The estradiol content in my weekly 7 cc injection is roughly 280 mg, or an average of 40mg/day. My doctor would like to see my blood plasma estrogen level in the 200 - 400 (whatever units
) range. When I was using the sublingual pills, I was taking 10 mg/day (70 mg/week).I
I can handle 10 mg/day of estrogen as I change medications. I still think it's too risky to be on 280 mg/week during this time. Anyway, several weeks before surgery I will need to stop all estrogen HRT. This may make things more difficult.
Hugs,
Danya
I am concerned about this. Perhaps I misunderstand you or maybe you are taking some other form of estrogen than I am aware of. I am assuming when you speak of injectable estrogen, you are talking about estradiol valerate in oil, Delestrogen or its compounded equivalent, usually 20 or 40 mg per ml. You say you take 7 ml for 280 mg per week. That is over 1120 mg a month. If that is Delestrogen, that is a massive and dangerous over dose. I give shots to myself and four other needlephobic transsexuals, with prescriptions from three different doctors. The largest dose is 20 mg per shot taken every other week for a total of around 40 mg per month. Your dose is almost 30 times the recommend dose for a pre-op transsexual.
For references;
http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12114
To Feminize:
2-8mg of Estrofem sublingualy as tolerated by your liver
Oral estrogens can cause significantly more hepatic and cardiac impairment than injected, and is only recommended if shots can not be tolerated weekly.
OR
20mg-40mg Bi Weekly Progynon Depot (Estradiol Valerate, Oestradiol Valerate) Deep IM Injection, must be dosed per the individual person. Blood tests indicating E levels should be dont to assure you do not exceed maximum safe levels. Average dose for a fit individual is 20mg bi-weekly.
http://www.annelawrence.com/regimens.html
Injectable (intramuscular) estrogen
estradiol valerate (e.g., Delestrogen(r)), 20 mg IM every two weeks. ... Occasionally half the suggested dosage may be sufficient. Sometimes the dosage will need to be increased, rarely even doubled. Beyond a certain point, larger dosages will not increase tissue response, but will only cause more side effects.
I assume I am mistaken,(I am not a doctor) but in the off chance I am right, please talk to your doctor immediatly and your SRS surgeon. That level of estrogen would put you at huge risk for blood clots in surgery (or at any other time for that matter.) I hope I am being silly, but that big an overdose would cause the other problems.
Transward
Re: My life
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:10 pm
by Danya (imported)
transward (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm
I am concerned about this. Perhaps I misunderstand you or maybe you are taking some other form of estrogen than I am aware of. I am assuming when you speak of injectable estrogen, you are talking about estradiol valerate in oil, Delestrogen or its compounded equivalent, usually 20 or 40 mg per ml.
I am taking the intramuscular injections of estradiol valerate in cottonseed oil. The bottle shows that this is 40 mg per cc (i.e., ml).
This is exactly what I take.
transward (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm
That is over 1120 mg a month. If that is Delestrogen, that is a massive and dangerous over dose. I give shots to myself and four other needlephobic transsexuals, with prescriptions from three different doctors. The largest dose is 20 mg per shot taken every other week for a total of around 40 mg per month. Your dose is almost 30 times the recommend dose for a pre-op transsexual.
For references;
http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?
http://www.annelawrence.com/regimens.html
I just did a quick search that I certainly do not consider exhaustive or authoritative. I need to get ready for work.
Sites I looked at included those covering use of IM estradiol valerate in natal and transsexual women.
Many of these sites listed depression as a possible side effect in both natal and transsexual women susceptible to depression.
I will investigate further tonight. For now, it looks like the dose I am taking is not out of line with that prescribed by some doctors to both natal women (who may have had ovaries removed or be experiencing other problemscausing an estrogen deficit) and transsexual women.
What many providers, including the HRT doctor I saw in Minnesota, tend to look for is the resulting estrogen blood level while being somehwat less concerned about the dose. When I was taking a lower injection dose of 140 mg/week, my tested estrogen level was no higher than the roughly 130 I was getting from sublingual pills.
transward (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm
I assume I am mistaken,(I am not a doctor) but in the off chance I am right, please talk to your doctor immediatly and your SRS surgeon. That level of estrogen would put you at huge risk for blood clots in surgery (or at any other time for that matter.) I hope I am being silly, but that big an overdose would cause the other problems.
Transward
My surgeon insists that all estrogen therapy by stopped 3 weeks before surgery.
I have discussed this dose of estradiol valerate with my physician several times. I'm aware of the potentail for blood clots and other problems. This is a problem with all forms of estrogen administration, although it is likely a higher risk on the dose I am on. Right now, I am getting blood work done every 3 months to follow what's happening. All of my test results remain well within the normal range.
He has treated over 200 transsexual women without problems, most with injectable estradiol valerate.
I'll try to write more on this tonight.
Transward, I very much appreciate your concern. Got to finish dressing for work.
Re: My life
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:11 am
by transward (imported)
A few more citations for normal estrogen dosage.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/delestrogen.html
For treatment of moderate to severe vasomotor symptoms, vulvar and vaginal atrophy associated with the menopause, the lowest dose and regimen that will control symptoms should be chosen and medication should be discontinued as promptly as possible.The usual dosage is 10 to 20 mg Delestrogen every four weeks. ...For treatment of female hypoestrogenism due to hypogonadism, castration, or primary ovarian failure.The usual dosage is 10 to 20 mg Delestrogen every four weeks. ... For treatment of advanced androgen-dependent carcinoma of the prostate, for palliation only. ...The usual dosage is 30 mg or more administered every one or two weeks. ...
This is a straight copy of the Delestrogen package insert.
http://women.emedtv.com/estradiol-valer ... osage.html
The recommended estradiol valerate dose is 10 mg to 20 mg injected once every a month. If you still have a uterus (if you have not had a hysterectomy), it is recommended that you take a progestin medication along with estradiol valerate, in order to help prevent cancer of the lining of the uterus....For prostate cancer, the recommended estradiol valerate dosage is 30 mg (or more) injected once every one or two weeks. This is a very high estradiol valerate dosage (much higher than recommended for other uses).
Note that you are taking 10 times the recommended dose for advanced prostate cancer which is considered a very large dose. Also
transward (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm
Beyond a certain point, larger dosages will not increase tissue response, but will only cause more side effects.
Transward
Re: My life
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:14 pm
by Danya (imported)
Thank you for persisting in this matter. Your last post made me wonder how we could be in such disagreement.
This was my error and it's important that I let readers know the actual dose of estradiol valerate I am taking. Once I realized my mistake, I had to issue a correction. Not to do so would be inexcusable. One of my biggest complaints about some TS support sites is inaccurate information. There is no way I want to contribute to that kind of thing. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused readers.
Sometimes, particularly when I am writing late in the evening - as I am now and when I wrote about my estradiol injection volume - I make mistakes. If I make more spelling errors late in the evening that's not a big deal. Providing incorrect medically-related information is an entirely different matter.
I am doing weekly
Danya (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:10 pm
intramuscular injections of estradiol valerate
and the vial does show the concentration of estradiol valerate is 40mg/ml.
My error was in stating that I use 7 ml in each weekly injection. That's a hell of a lot, you are absolutely right.
The correct volume I inject once a week 0.7 ml, not the ten times higher dose of 7 ml I had reported. So one injection provides 28 mg of estradiol valerate, not 280 mg.
Again, Transward, I appreciate your persistence.
I am still concerned that, even taking the volume correction into account, I am putting myself at risk for depression at a time when I do not want to chance it.
The 0.7 ml/week injection is giving me, averaged over a week, nearly 3 times the estrogen from the sublingual pills.
I have always been concerned about clotting risks, too. Particularly the danger if I should ever need emergency surgery. I will discuss this once again with my HRT doctor when I see him Monday.
Re: My life
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:29 pm
by transward (imported)
Danya (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:14 pm
Thank you for persisting in this matter. Your last post made me wonder how we could be in such disagreement.
This was my error and it's important that I let readers know the actual dose of estradiol valerate I am taking. Once I realized my mistake, I had to issue a correction. Not to do so would be inexcusable. One of my biggest complaints about some TS support sites is inaccurate information. There is no way I want to contribute to that kind of thing. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused readers.
Sometimes, particularly when I am writing late in the evening - as I am now and when I wrote about my estradiol injection volume - I make mistakes. If I make more spelling errors late in the evening that's not a big deal. Providing incorrect medically-related information is an entirely different matter.
I am doing weekly
Danya (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:10 pm
int
Danya (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:14 pm
ramuscular injections of estradiol valerate
and the vial does show the concentration of estradiol valerate is 40mg/ml.
My error was in stating that I use 7 ml in each weekly injection. That's a hell of a lot, you are absolutely right.
The correct volume I inject once a week 0.7 ml, not the ten times higher dose of 7 ml I had reported. So one injection provides 28 mg of estradiol valerate, not 280 mg.
Again, Transward, I appreciate your persistence.
I am still concerned that, even taking the volume correction into account, I am putting myself at risk for depression at a time when I do not want to chance it.
The 0.7 ml/week injection is giving me, averaged over a week, nearly 3 times the estrogen from the sublingual pills.
I have always been concerned about clotting risks, too. Particularly the danger if I should ever need emergency surgery. I will discuss this
once again with my HRT doctor when I see him Monday.
Thank you. Before I replied the first time I debated with myself whether to reply on the board or on PM. I decided since you had posted your regimine on the board, the right dosage should be there too, so I did it on the board.
I wondered how painful it would be to inject 7 mg, as viscous as the estrogen is. It would take forever to load the syringe and inject it. Even with the volume correction, I note that you are still taking about two and a half time the dose prescribed to any of the trans woman I know;(I take .4 ml, 16 mg, every two weeks.) On the other hand it probably won't hurt you in the short run. I know a trans woman that transitioned in the mid seventies, and who, believing that a little, being good, a lot is better, has been taking about three times the prescribed dose for about 35 years and she is still raising hell. Still a conversation with your doctor would be indicated. Had you health insurance, I would recommend a second opinion. You could probably do quite well on a much lower dose. The best breast development of any trans woman i know is on a woman who has been taking 20 mg biweekly for about seven years. (She is an aspiring porn star and doesn't need implants.) I wish you great happiness in the upcoming months.
Transward
Re: My life
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:48 am
by Danya (imported)
transward (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:29 pm
I wondered how painful it would be to inject 7 mg, as viscous as the estrogen is. It would take forever to load the syringe and inject it.
Pulling just 0.7 ml into the syringe seems to take forever. It is thick. I cannot imagine ever injecting 7 ml.
transward (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:29 pm
Even with the volume correction, I note that you are still taking about two and a half time the dose prescribed to any of the trans woman I know;(I take .4 ml, 16 mg, every two weeks.)
My dose is similar to several trans women I know in the Chicago area and my measured estrogen level is 135 pg/ml. This is not considered a high test result.
transward (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:29 pm
On the other hand it probably won't hurt you in the short run. I know a trans woman that transitioned in the mid seventies, and who, believing that a little, being good, a lot is better, has been taking about three times the prescribed dose for about 35 years and she is still raising hell. Still a conversation with your doctor would be indicated.
Just to be sure people are aware of this, I am not taking more estradiol valerate than the dose prescribed by my physician. He has several decades of experience treating over 200 transsexual persons, including prescribing hormones.
I agree that more estrogen is not better, beyond a certain point as determined by a health care provide.
I have never taken more than the prescribed dose since I started estrogen HRT in June, 2008.
transward (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:29 pm
Had you health insurance, I would recommend a second opinion.
I have opinions from three physicians who regularly treat transsexual persons.
What I find frustrating is that, to my knowledge, there is no consensus on the best delivery method, dose or 'type' of estrogen for HRT in male-to-female transsexual persons.
You cite DonFL's report (
) on HRT for male-to-female transsexuals. I know he was a careful researcher who worked in the medical field.
He recommends injectable estradiol valerate as one method for feminization:
transward (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm
To Feminize:
2-8mg of Estrofem sublingualy as tolerated by your liver
Oral estrogens can cause significantly more hepatic and cardiac impairment than injected, and is only recommended if shots can not be tolerated weekly.
OR
20mg-40mg Bi Weekly Progynon Depot (Estradiol Valerate, Oestradiol Valerate) Deep IM Injection, must be dosed per the individual person. Blood tests indicating E levels should be dont to assure you do not exceed maximum safe levels. Average dose for a fit individual is 20mg bi-weekly.
OPTIONAL when using Estradiol Valerate : 2mg Daily Estrofem sublingualy (only if needed for constant feed of E from the up/down cycle of the injected estrogen, estrofem has the lowest emotional liability of all the oral estrogens, if your body is sensitive or you dont need it, you can leave out the oral estrogen. Injected is the safest method of delivery and best for your liver.)
Contrary to DonFL's advice, the Anne Lawrence page (
http://www.annelawrence.com/regimens.html) you cited does not recommend injectable estradiol for pre-operative transsexuals. Dr. Lawrence discusses this treatment under a title with a warning. I am pointing this out only as a small bit of evidence that there is no consensus view, in this case on hormone delivery method:
(NOT RECOMMENDED):
transward (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm
estradiol valerate (e.g., Delestrogen(r)), 20 mg IM every two weeks.
Occasionally half the suggested dosage may be sufficient. Sometimes the dosage will need to be increased, rarely even doubled. Beyond a certain point, larger dosages will not increase tissue response, but will only cause more side effects.
In the Twin Cities, to my knowledge there were no physicians who would prescribe anything but the patch to male-to-female transsexuals over the age of 40. Two gender therapists also told me that all of their over-40 patients were using the patch.
One of the Twin Cities physicians I worked with for HRT told me that medical views on best hormone treatment options for transsexuals varied around the US.
I agree with transward's cautions and appreciate her input. It is wise to educate yourself on the risks and benefits of HRT, to proceed only under the care of a physician and to assertively question providers about their experience and philosophy. We all need to make informed decisions on how to proceed with all medical treatment.
Re: My life
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:28 pm
by Danya (imported)
Once I start investigating a topic, it can be hard to stop. When a medically-related or scientific subject has my interest, I prefer to read published articles to form my own opinion. This will be my last foray into this topic. I don't have time to do more investigating. I really do need to get a life.
Besides, all of this analytical thinking goes against my personality preference for feeling versus thinking (although by a smaller margin than before I transitioned, which is very interesting to me, but way off-topic.) I may need to play the piano, with passion, for awhile to 'feel' back to my regular self.
Using the web site PubMed (
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed), run by the US National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health, I ran a search to include the words 'transsexual hormone therapy' and, voila, all kinds of interesting and recent studies were returned.
This government site provides abstracts and, at times, further details of published studies of all kinds. Generally, one can obtain the entire article only by paying for it. What most interested me was this recently published study, because it describes consensus treatment guidelines. What follows is only a small fraction of the published article (at the end of this post, I will explain how you can download the entire publication at no cost.):
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2009 Sep;94(9):3132-54. Epub 2009 Jun 9.
Endocrine treatment of transsexual persons: an Endocrine Society clinical practice guideline. (
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19509099)
Hembree WC, Cohen-Kettenis P, Delemarre-van de Waal HA, Gooren LJ, Meyer WJ 3rd, Spack NP, Tangpricha V, Montori VM; Endocrine Society.
The Endocrine Society, 8401 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 900, Chevy Chase, Maryland, USA.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: The aim was to formulate practice guidelines for endocrine treatment of transsexual persons.
EVIDENCE: This evidence-based guideline was developed using the Grading of Recommendations, Assessment, Development, and Evaluation (GRADE) system to describe the strength of recommendations and the quality of evidence, which was low or very low.
CONSENSUS PROCESS: Committees and members of The Endocrine Society, European Society of Endocrinology, European Society for Paediatric Endocrinology, Lawson Wilkins Pediatric Endocrine Society, and
Danya (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:07 pm
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
commented on preliminary drafts of these guidelines.
CONCLUSIONS: Transsexual persons seeking to develop the physical characteristics of the desired gender require a safe, effective hormone regimen that will 1) suppress endogenous hormone secretion determined by the person's genetic/biologic sex and 2) maintain sex hormone levels within the normal range for the person's desired gender. A mental health professional (MHP) must recommend endocrine treatment and participate in ongoing care throughout the endocrine transition and decision for surgical sex reassignment. The endocrinologist must confirm the diagnostic criteria the MHP used to make these recommendations. Because a diagnosis of transsexualism in a prepubertal child cannot be made with certainty, we do not recommend endocrine treatment of prepubertal children. We recommend treating transsexual adolescents (Tanner stage 2) by suppressing puberty with GnRH analogues until age 16 years old, after which cross-sex hormones may be given. We suggest suppressing endogenous sex hormones, maintaining physiologic levels of gender-appropriate sex hormones and monitoring for known risks in adult transsexual persons.
PMID: 19509099 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free Article
Because I am not quoting anything from the full article text, I will adhere to the quite reasonable EA site guidelines: I will not post the link to the full article. I will simply state that the complete article gives me information I feel I can trust to make more fully informed decisions about my own treatment with cross-gender hormones.
Most peer-reviewed publication abstracts/summaries are not available without payment. This one is an exception.
Anyone wishing to view the published article, at no cost, can find it by using the Advanced Search function of Google Scholar at
http://scholar.google.com/advanced_scholar_search. Enter the title of the article or the first few words of the title (Endocrine treatment of transsexual persons: an Endocrine Society clinical practice guideline) in the field labeled: "Find Articles with the Exact Phrase."
Re: My life
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:56 pm
by transward (imported)
Danya (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:28 pm
Anyone wishing to view the published article, at no cost, can find it by using the Advanced Search function of Google Scholar at
http://scholar.google.com/advanced_scholar_search. Enter the title of the article or the first few words of the title (Endocrine treatment of transsexual persons: an Endocrine Society clinical practice guideline) in the field labeled: "Find Articles with the Exact Phrase."
The article is available on Anne Lawrence's web site
http://www.annelawrence.com/ Click on Hormone Therapy then on "Endocrine Treatment of Transsexual Persons: An Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guideline"
Transward
:doll :
I'll still fit that in.